In Conversation with Devdutt Pattanaik: Exploring Mythology, Religion, and Culture | Interview
Devdutt Pattanaik, a renowned writer and thinker, delves into the complexities of mythology, religion, and cultural narratives. With over 50 books to his name, he has uniquely applied the wisdom of the Mahabharata and Ramayana to the realm of human resource management. During the recently concluded Jaipur Literature Festival, I, Srinivasan R, had the privilege of engaging with him in a thought-provoking conversation.
Q: As a renowned Mythological Scholar, how do you differentiate between historical narratives and mythological tales? Given that the latter also holds a written account, do you believe history and mythology are always in sync with each other?
A: "There are distinct processes involved in understanding mythology and decoding history. While not overly complicated, scientific understanding relies on doubt, not faith. When presented with a written document making a claim, evidence is crucial. If a scripture claims divine communication with a human, yet lacks historical evidence, it becomes a belief system, ultimately forming the myth of a people. However, if evidence of such communication exists in a desert, it becomes a historical fact. This evidence undergoes rigorous cross-checking, with varying levels of importance assigned to different sources. Epigraphic evidence, for example, carries greater weight than narratives from the same tradition. A complete method exists, and a discerning individual can identify the difference."
Q: Are mythologies simply religious scripts, or do they encompass broader dimensions?
A: "Mythologies are not confined solely to religious contexts. Every nation and state establishes its own belief system, defining who is a patriot and who is not, who the enemy might be. Concepts like justice, equal rights, and human rights are all inherently mythological, existing independently of the religious sphere. Essentially, mythology embodies how a culture perceives the world, manifesting in various forms, be it religious or secular."
Q: We are witnessing a resurgence of mythological themes in popular culture, with Bollywood and Tollywood films like Adipurush and HanuMan captivating audiences. What is your perspective on this trend? Do you see it as a constructive means of exploring our cultural heritage and beliefs, or a form of political propaganda?
A: "It's crucial to distinguish between fantasy and mythology. While most Bollywood films utilize fantastical narratives, 'Adipurush' attempts to retell the Ramayana, qualifying it as a mythological retelling. 'HanuMan' clearly falls under the category of mythological fiction. 'Adipurush' reimagines the world through its own lens, and I believe every creative individual has the freedom to express and reimagine mythology, including through the lens of mythological fiction."
Q: In a previous interview, you highlighted the undervaluation of Jain traditions. What, in your opinion, contributes to this oversight, and how can we rectify it to foster a deeper understanding of Jainism and accord it the recognition it merits?
A: "Not everybody reads every book in the library, that is the way the world is. I don't think anybody is ignoring Jain traditions. It's just that since it is a tiny proportion of Indians who practice Jainism, it is but natural. It does not become a dominant discourse. That's all. We don't have to see injustice and oppression in every situation. I just feel there's an opportunity for Indians to learn a lot from Jainism. When you study Jainism, your understanding of Hinduism and Buddhism improves, that is the reason I have written the book."
Q: Renaming India as Bharat... Considering the various name changes, including those of cities and cricket stadiums, do you perceive these transformations as rooted in historical significance, or do they appear as ambitious political endeavours lacking necessity?
A: "I don't think India has been renamed as Bharat. India has always been called Bharat, the current government amplifies Bharat, and the previous government amplified India. So that's how it works, names are changing all the time. Delhi was once called Indraprastha. That's how the world changes. Everybody changes things over time, and it's perfectly fine."
Q: On a personal note, why do you think there is a lack of tolerance in discussions surrounding religious controversies? The emphasis on religion or caste as defining identities often overshadows an individual's deeds. Is this inclination inherent, and was it prevalent even in ancient times?
A: "I think people enjoy combat and therefore love being combative. I think it's a waste of time. I would rather be curious and don't pay any attention to these various conflicts that are amplified by the media."
Q: Observing the religious affiliations of people in the South, do you notice any differences in religious tolerance compared to the North? Are there South Indian deities that particularly captivate your interest?
"We only talk about North and South and have forgotten about East and West. This is the tragedy. The dominant political discourse is focused on the North and so, it is challenged by the South. The silent East and West are completely forgotten. I think all deities are of value, and we can learn different things from different deities. I'm sure there are North Indian deities that most North Indians don't know about. For example, do you know the stories of Golu Devata or Nanda and Sunanda of Uttarakhand? These are North Indian deities, which most North Indians may not know - unless they belong to the Himalayan regions. So if you're curious, we learn about all the gods of India in all directions."
Q: The consecration of Ram Mandir in Ayodhya has been marketed as the 500-year-old dream of Hindus. Any comments on that from a mythological perspective?
"I think the temple makes many people happy and that's a good thing, but the mythological Ram has been timeless and has always existed. So those who have found joy in the Ram have always found joy in Ram. The presence or absence of the temple doesn't impact their journeys with the great epic."